We are putting up this transcript of the evidence of Maurice McCabe as a public service. Please read to get an insight into how Ireland’s deep state operates.
This is a transcript of the evidence that Maurice McCabe gave about his meeting with the Garda press officer, Superintendent Taylor.
Read it for the incredible insight it gives into how Ireland’s ‘deep state’ operates.
Q So he was sober and he appeared to be some under stress?
- Yeah, yeah, he was. And he just started off. He says, I destroyed you. And I said, what do you mean? And he kept saying, I destroyed you. And I says, I want to know what you did to me. So I’ll take my time, if that is okay with you.
- Yes. A. So he started telling me that he was the Press Officer, which I knew, so I didn’t need to know that. But he said that he orchestrated, he said that there was an orchestrated campaign to attack me and he said it was in the form of whispering, of phone calls, of texts, of text messages. He said he was ordered to do this on the authority of ex-Commissioner Martin Callinan. He told me that — he said to me, I never wrote the text messages, he says, all the text — Martin Callinan, he says, always wrote the text messages, and he says, I was asked just to send them on. And then he told me then that he would always send one to ex-Commissioner Nóirín O’Sullivan, and that she would always reply, I think the word “perfect”. Now, Mr. Marrinan, I’m not saying this in sequence, if you can understand, I’m just saying what
- Yeah, well, just give us, in the first instance, your recollection, and then we can explore it a little bit further, because it is quite important.
- Yeah, good. I think it took him half an hour to say that bit, but he got upset then, in relation to what he was telling me, and when he was upset in relation to — Michelle told me, the wife told me that he was with a spiritual person and he had to confess all that he was saying to me, Mr. Chairman. He then started to explain to me a few things, that An Garda Síochána were obsessed with me. It was bordering on — I’m just not sure what word he used, but he said it was bordering on — whatever, he said it was constant obsession. When I’d be on the radio, or if there was an article which had praised me, he would always ring Martin Callinan to tell him that there was an article here that was praising him, and then he was telling me so it was Martin Callinan would always say back to him, well, you know, do him down, you know, use your phone and do him down, he has to be buried.
- Did he say how he was to do you down?
- Yeah, he did, and I will just tell you now in one second. Because at that stage then I had a number, Mr. Chairman, of incidents in my head he was saying, but I couldn’t just keep them all and I asked him if I could take a brief note of what he was saying to me, and he said I could. I got the pen and paper off him. And he then explained that he was the press secretary, that everything was going through him. He said Martin Callinan was the main person. He said Martin Callinan would encourage Dave Taylor to spread the rumours about me, the fact that I had been investigated for a sexual assault, and he was told to down me all the time. He said that — I didn’t ask him in relation to the journalists’ name because I didn’t want to know who they were, but he did say to me that he would ring them up, and if there was good story about me in the paper, he would always put it bad. He also said that in relation to — Commissioner Callinan’s version was to always run me down, bring up the alleged assault and always run me down. Em, he told me that there was a file in Garda Headquarters on me and he told me it was in the name of Oisín and he told me that Oisín was a grandson of ex — maybe I’d better not say that, will I?
- Well, it was just a name that –
- Just a name, yeah.
- — that had been picked out by senior officers?
- Exactly, thanks. He was a grandson of a senior officer. And that this was on intelligence file. He then told me that there was a person by the name of whoever, that he was monitoring me on Pulse in Garda Headquarters. I wasn’t interested in a lot of stuff, except I did ask him who is spreading these rumours about me? And he said he was, but he was ordered to do it.
- Did he say how he sent the information out?
- Yeah, he did. He said that it would be sent by a phone call or by a text message.
- Did he say that he had sent text messages? A. He did, he said that he had sent hundreds of text messages.
- Who he had sent the text messages to? A. He said that he had sent them to other senior gardaí, he said that he had sent them to journalists.
- The ones that he sent to the gardaí, what was the content of them?
- It was just in relation to this allegation that was made against me back in ’06.
- And the ones that he sent to the journalists?
- He said it was the same. He said that when I’d be on the news, he said that Martin Callinan would compile a text message and send it, and send it to him and he would send it on. So then –
- When you say “send it on”, send it on to who?
- He would send it on to other senior gardaí, he would send it on to ex-Commissioner O’Sullivan, he said, and he’d send it on to journalists, and he’d send it on, I think it was a number of TDs he mentioned, didn’t say who they were. I didn’t want to know who anyone was.
- Can I just stop you here in relation to this, because what you’re saying is that Superintendent Taylor was sitting there in his living room, accepting responsibility for disseminating information about you and the previous investigation of you in relation to an allegation of sexual assault. You’re saying that he’s saying that former Commissioner Callinan was actually composing these messages that were being sent through Superintendent Taylor and were being sent to other Gardaí, to journalists and also to politicians, you say? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
- Mm-hmm. 6
- Did he say how often this was done or how many text messages were sent? A. He said he sent, the words he used was hundreds of text messages. Then he went on about he met a spiritualist and he was with the spiritualist a number of times and he confessed to the spiritualist that he had done this.
- How did you feel when you heard what Superintendent Taylor –
- I was furious at him, furious. And I was furious with him because all he to do was say no, all he had to do was to say to Martin Callinan, look at, I sent a text message, and not send it, you know. He could have stopped.
- Well, just to make it very clear in relation to this because these are matters that have been — that are in your protected disclosure and also in Superintendent Taylor’s protected disclosure in a different form, substantially different form, and which former Commissioner Martin Callinan absolutely denies and in circumstances where former Commissioner Nóirín O’Sullivan denies any knowledge of?
- Right. Did he say that she had any role in relation to this?
#A. Em, he said that she was the pusher, that’s what he called her.
- The pusher?
- The pusher.
- And what did you think that that meant?
- Well, then he just — all he said was, you know, she was the pusher and she knew everything, everything that was going on.